Curse

sweet555 · Apr 08, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

So recently, I've noticed that a lot of players are getting into GvG crap, since the game is prty much dead, and not a lot of players experienced this portion of the game. I like the deal with the new players, since that means more new opponents, and also, keeps the game fresh and interesting.

However, many starters that GvG have no idea what they are doing, which only seems natural. Nevertheless, the extent of their ignorance is to a level in which they don't even know what flags are, or what the hell a flag runner is. They go into the guild battles with the dumbest builds they can come up with from PvE or w/e, no coordination (Some of them don't even know what Ventrilo is), and no organization, and the shocking thing is, they expect to win.

Now I'm not saying I'm pro or nething, no no no, it's not like that, but all I'm saying is, take a bit of time to do some research. No one really taught me how to play the game, it's all just from doing a bit of research.

The research I'm talking about is Observer Mode. I mean, what a great tool for newer GvG players. I mean, you get to see what the top guilds are running, how they are playing each of their positions, how they converge on spikes, positioning, etc. Observer mode shows both sides, and prty much, it sees everything. Now if you are a newer player, why not try and observe a couple of matches, see the basic flow of it, understand all the concepts, and THEN GvG. Don't have to rush into things. Usually, success comes from patience, and a lot of resourcefulness.

Another issue for newer players is communication. Most players think having vent is like "Oh, I can communicate effectively", but often times, that is not the case. It's like saying that just because I have a phone, that means I must be able to communicate. Communication is more than just about players hearing you speak, it's about comprehension. The relay of messages from person to person is difficult, and it's even more difficult when you cannot do it effectively. This means that, you must learn how, and when to speak on vent.

With communication and research covered, let's talk about organization. Organization fits in a lot with the meta game and your research. If everyone else is running balanced, don't try to be smart and run 5 dervishes. This might seem like a buzzkill, but trust me, for new players, use a tested method, one that would work, and actually experience the technicality of GvGs and then start going into the more detailed portion of the game. Another issue with organization is that people are just fit into roles that they seem to be unable to perform to their fullest potential. If one guy is amazing at warrior, don't make him monk just because your lacking a monk and can't go into GvGs without it. That's not going to help your team, but instead hurt it. Play to your team's strengths, and for starters, don't try anything too fancy.

Another issue is with builds. Builds are meant to work together, to synergize with the other skills on the other 7 players bar. So for less experienced GvGers, use something simple like a PvX wiki build. Don't try Rawrspiking your first round. Simple often times is most efficient. Also make sure the players playing each position has had adequate experience playing the bar they are running. For practice, go to Random Arenas, and practice with it. If you could get a 10 win streak, you may then run the bar in a GvG. If everyone does this, that means that everyone will have had adequate experience, since not many people get 10 win streaks on the first time, unless your extremely lucky of course. Take a screenshot, and prove it to the GvG officer or guild leader as proof.

An important issue that newer GvG players may experience is that if you don't win the first time, many will turn to the build and point the finger at the build. That is often not the case. It is most likely that the group has not practiced enough with the build, and thus are losing because of the lack of practice, so don't just change the build, builds don't win games, practice does, so remember practice the build many times before discarding it and deeming it ineffective. If your getting your builds from wiki, I doubt they are ineffective.

With that being said, I will give you a list of all the things that you could potentially need to have a successful first time GvGing

1. Vent
2. A build that everyone has practiced with
3. Skills saved to template, allows quick and easy set up, and allows multiple matches without hassling with skills
4. 8 players on vent and ready to go
5. Good communication
6. a lot of patience, especially if you lose

Hope this guide helped you a bit on your quest to GvG in the future, or perhaps start GvGing. There are many more details to GvGing, the really specific stuff that I didn't cover, and so if you have any questions or comments, post below, or pm me in game @ Il Sweet N Sour Il

Cheerios

arrowofthewood · Apr 08, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

The problem I see for starting GvG'ers or people R3 and below is to find people that think the same way and don't screw up every GvG guild by purpose (gaining trust and being promoted --> organising GvG's behind the back of the leader... pure backstab and happend to me 3 times already, makes you just /ragequit).

sweet555 · Apr 08, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

I do agree, since a lot of the players are the way you say they are, and they will backstab you, and that is a huge problem for starters, but a way to maybe take the burden of the issue off is to preach to the players that if they do not work together, they will fail miserably, since they are not playing toward each others' strengths, and they are not communicating with the leader well. If players are backstabbing the leader, something must be wrong, and so the leader must also be responsible for what could be potentially wrong that the individual players feel they need to fix.

Yichi · Apr 08, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10172205

hi I'm the sticky thats been at the top of this subforum for almost 2 years...

sweet555 · Apr 09, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Hi, things have changed since to years ago, and your guide covers game play, my guide covers things you do outside of the game...

IMMORTAlMITCH · Apr 09, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Very nice guide, helped me a ton!

tigros · Apr 09, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Common Mitch! Give up PVE (you're only koabd 2 on you war

) and learn some PvP, will ya?

)

MaaKotka · Apr 09, 2009, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Nice guide overall, but there is something I'd like to say about observe mode. If you have never played gvg match and you don't have much understanding on how gvg works, you aren't getting much from observe. You don't hear what teams are speaking and when you don't understand much about gvg chances are you have no idea why teams are doing most of things what they are doing. I don't say don't observe, but as a new gvger don't expect to learn much from observe. Most teams that are seen on observe use very advanced tactics and they do a lot stuff that may seem unreasonable for a new gvger.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Apr 09, 2009, 10:37 AM // 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaaKotka

Most teams that are seen on observe use very advanced tactics

Hahahahahahahahahaha

English Warrior · Apr 09, 2009, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Hahahahahahahahahaha

I agreee, Hahahahahahahahahaha

Zabe · Apr 09, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Hahahahahahahahahaha

Running flag is advanced for some people

moriz · Apr 09, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

i'm still having trouble convincing a friend of mine that having a shield set is a good idea... he also doesn't get that frenzy/PR with cover stance is one of the most vicious combos available.

gvg requires a different way of thinking apparently. what's common sense for us might not be for everyone else.

sweet555 · Apr 09, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I agree with you guys completely, but the point of observing is that you can have a basic understanding of the maps, some of the tactics, etc... but i like the suggestions, thanks

ShootEm · Apr 09, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Nice Guide! Very Helpful for me, as a new gvg'er, for what to do to PREPARE for GvG! Thanks!

MMSDome · Apr 09, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I am a master strategist for many things. I can come up with brilliant ways to outsmart your enemy, be it human or not. I would like to offer my services to all guilds for free. I don't want to join a guild, but I can still help you with strategies. All you need to do is post in here and tell me this:

1.Exactly what you are trying to do. I need to know the entire situation. Whether it is PVP or Co-op, what kinds of enemies you are facing, what gametype it is in PVP, what the terrain is, etc.

2. Who is in your guild party. This means the player set you have, which means a list of them and some description. Example:
Monk/Elementalist-mainly a healer with some damage
Ranger/Warrior- Uses bow when he can, but then gets up close and personal

And so on. I just need to know what classes your teammates and you are, and also any tendencies they have so that I can balance it.

I will then reply to you and give you a strategy. It really depends what situation it is, but it will be either a formation with set tasks for each person (co-op mostly), or some actual battle tactics, like maybe flanking or diversions depending on the game (PVP mostly). As a side note, I do not actually own Guild Wars but I know and understand the spells and the classes. Keep that in mind when you explain the situation, although I will likely do background research anyway. Please take advantage of my services, I hope to be useful.

So what do I help with? Well, I'll show you with this sample. This is a co-op oriented formation for an evenly balanced party. Usually you can find the right combination of people with secondary professions at least for this to work. Also understand that roles can switch and people can do more than one or whatever, but this is the general idea (even though its tweakable). This can be used for cases where you are just marching through enemy territory and will run into a pack of enemies periodically. This is ASCII art (whatever that stands for) so I hope this works ok.

This is the basic formation with each player profession showed as a letter. R=Ranger E=Elementalist W=Warrior M=Monk K=either Necromancer or Mesmer or just odd left out people.

March formation-use this to move (BTW the dots are because this forum collapses spaces against the edge so I have to put them there for spacing, I hope its not too confusing)

.............................. ...............R1
.............................. ..........W1 K W2
.............................. ..........E1 M E2
.............................. ...............R2

Tasks

Ranger1: Scout and Trapper
Spots enemies early and calls them out to team. Informs team of numbers, types, and formation. If the R1 spots an enemy long range person (caster, archer, whatever) it is the R1's job to take it out with his bow before it can hit the rest of the party. When enemies charge, the R1 plants traps in front of the party. They then retreat back to either the right or left flank, they decide with the R2 who takes the other side.

Warrior 1/2: Solid Wall
Stops enemies before they can hit the rest of the team. Takes the direct melee damage and deals the direct damage. Usually though, they end up doing mop up duty on the weakened enemies from spells and traps.

Monk: Healer
Stays in the middle to heal the entire party. Can cast or whatever but always needs to be able to heal at least the warriors but also anyone taking hits.

Elementalist: Power House
The big guns. Deal lots of damage and hurt enemies greatly so the warriors have it easy. Use lots of AOE spells and cast them in front of the warriors so that all approaching enemies take damage as they run to the warriors.

Necromancer/Mesmer: Support
They back the team up, whether with countering spells, raising corpses and such to fight and distract enemies to help out the warriors, or just dealing some damage, they help round out the team.

Ranger2: Rear-Guard and Anti-Ambush
1: Protects back. 2: Acts as a sniper to protect the party from ambushes. If team is surprised and attacked from sides and maybe front too, the R2 is already in a very good postion to pick off enemies. People up front may get surrounded, so he can clear enemies out off them and allow the party to retreat and regroup (if necessary) behind his firing position while he gives covering fire (with arrows).

So, the attack should play out like this.

1. R1 sets traps well in front of warriors.
2. R1&2 run to opposite sides, left and right. They will stay there the whole battle and do 2 things: Defend flank by setting traps on their own side, and they will try to pick off enemies that start to surround warriors or who get past the warriors.
3. As enemies approach, elementalists cast firestorm in between the warriors and the traps. They want to cast it so it appears as the enemies get hit by the trap. The trap should hurt the enemies and if it is a barb trap they will be slowed down. This means they will have to approach the warriors slowly and will be stuck in the firestorm for a much longer time, taking constant damage.
4. This should knock out a lot of the first attackers that the enemy throws at you. From here, everybody just does their thing, with elementalists using AOE or normal single target spells as they see fit and everyone else fighting normally.

This is the formation during the attack.

.............................. ............----------------(barb trap)......................... ...
.............................. .........../\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
.............................. ............./\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/(firestorms)
.............................. ............./\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
....................-.......................W1....W 2....................-
(barb trap)..-..............R1........E1..M. .E2.........R2.........-
.............-.............................. .....K........................ ...- (barb trap)
...........- .............................. .............................. .......-

As you can see, all sides are covered. Note: If there are 2 random enemies, you don't need to use barb traps or firestorms. I hope you figured that out, but just to let you know. In other words, don't take all this literally for every encounter. This is useful, though, in areas where lots of enemies swarm. If they come from behind the rangers just put barb traps behind and they turn and guard the back. The elementalists will then partially guard their own sides, and the K's will help the flanks too.

That was just my quick basic strategy to (hopefully) show that I am not a complete idiot. Now please, don't start explaining to me that in the one part with those one guys this wouldn't work because blah blah...This is a general formation, not a specific one. If you do find a place where this wouldn't work, tell me about the guy in the place and maybe I can come up with something. Well, hope this helped. That's all I'm trying to do anyway.

Byron · Apr 09, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

stuff

Yes, that seems like a highly advanced vanquishing strategy. Lotta stuff. (If it is a troll, I feel bad for the poor thing.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zabe

Running flag is advanced for some people

You pick up the flag and put it in the stand.

Flag runner's guide c/o Doji

sweet555 · Apr 09, 2009, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

Tasks

Ranger1: Scout and Trapper
Spots enemies early and calls them out to team. Informs team of numbers, types, and formation. If the R1 spots an enemy long range person (caster, archer, whatever) it is the R1's job to take it out with his bow before it can hit the rest of the party. When enemies charge, the R1 plants traps in front of the party. They then retreat back to either the right or left flank, they decide with the R2 who takes the other side.

who still uses trappers, and btw, with the current meta game, wars are the main damage dealers, and honestly, its been like that for a while. iono what your trying to accomplish with this long and dragged out post here...

JONO51 · Apr 09, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

stuff

Ian Boyd!!!!!!!!

moriz · Apr 09, 2009, 11:05 PM // 23:05

the legend lives on!!!

sweet555 · Apr 09, 2009, 11:13 PM // 23:13

did MMSDome come off kind of how, shall i put this nicely, dumb? I dont want to be the only one thinking this cus well... CONFORMITY RULES